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Laura
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PostSubject: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:23 pm

I have just finished "Animal Farm" - anyone ever read it? I loved it, although it became very depressing from the moment that Boxer died. Usually I do not mind characters' deaths when they are necessary (though why Dumbledore had to die, I'll never, ever understand!), but this one I found very sad. Also, the way that Orwell simplifies and illustrates Stalinism with the Commandments and the regular reports is incredible. I wonder if any Stalinist ever read the novel, and if they did, what they thought of it - but I don't suppose there will be much coverage on that point. A pity really... I would love to read it.

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:06 pm

I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:37 pm

Allison wrote:
I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That is also lovely... Of all animals, the pigs are depicted as the bastards... Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:34 pm

Laura wrote:
Allison wrote:
I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That is also lovely... Of all animals, the pigs are depicted as the bastards... Very Happy

It was a shame. I like pigs. I have a whole collection of pig memorabilia on a shelf and everything. Anyway.

I liked the book a lot. It kind of ruined it for me when I had to pick each aspect apart and pair it with an aspect of the Russian Revolution and write a paper on it, but I feel very informed, at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:59 pm

Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Allison wrote:
I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That is also lovely... Of all animals, the pigs are depicted as the bastards... Very Happy

It was a shame. I like pigs. I have a whole collection of pig memorabilia on a shelf and everything. Anyway.

I liked the book a lot. It kind of ruined it for me when I had to pick each aspect apart and pair it with an aspect of the Russian Revolution and write a paper on it, but I feel very informed, at least.

Strange - that is part of the fun for me, to pick it apart, analyse every single word to the last bit. It makes me feel that I understand the text more thoroughly. Then again, that may be the linguist in me. However, I do recall that I used to hate it when I was around sixteen. In German, we had to take apart "Effi Briest" to within an inch of its life. I questioned whether this could really have been the author's intention, and was informed that yes, it was. (On a side note, the first impression I got of Effi was that she was a naive nitwit - then I thoroughly analysed the book, and it turned out that she was an extremely naive nitwit. What an incredible use the analysis was.

But "Animal Farm" is one of the books where I love analysing. In fact, I went back several times throughout the novel when something struck me. For instance, I put a permanent bookmark in the chapter with the commandments, and went back to them frequently. Also, when Mollie left, I reread all the parts in which she was mentioned before that, to make out her character - same with Snowball, only more extensive. It also appeared to me that the animals had trouble remembering things correctly (or at least, so Napoleon & Squealer said), and that is somehow projected onto the reader.

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:03 pm

I read Animal Farm earlier this year. I liked it, but considering I know very little of the Russian Revolution (I just read Animal Farm for myself), I couldn't compare the two.
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:08 pm

Nicholle wrote:
I read Animal Farm earlier this year. I liked it, but considering I know very little of the Russian Revolution (I just read Animal Farm for myself), I couldn't compare the two.

Well, it is not so much about the Russian Revolution (only a small part at the beginning is), but moves on quickly to Stalinism.

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:11 pm

Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
I read Animal Farm earlier this year. I liked it, but considering I know very little of the Russian Revolution (I just read Animal Farm for myself), I couldn't compare the two.

Well, it is not so much about the Russian Revolution (only a small part at the beginning is), but moves on quickly to Stalinism.

Yes, I figured that much out. Napoleon is supposed to represent Stalin, right? Both use propaganda to gain followers.
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:16 pm

Nicholle wrote:
Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
I read Animal Farm earlier this year. I liked it, but considering I know very little of the Russian Revolution (I just read Animal Farm for myself), I couldn't compare the two.

Well, it is not so much about the Russian Revolution (only a small part at the beginning is), but moves on quickly to Stalinism.

Yes, I figured that much out. Napoleon is supposed to represent Stalin, right? Both use propaganda to gain followers.

Exactly. Both work with detailed plans and quotas, both take care to appear as a "comrade", but in fact place themselves above everyone else, both are sly and dishonest. The dogs represent the Red Army, Snowball is Trotsky, the sheep are the gullible masses, and so on. I really find it fascinating how Orwell manages to create the exact same relations in a completely different environment.

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:19 pm

Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
I read Animal Farm earlier this year. I liked it, but considering I know very little of the Russian Revolution (I just read Animal Farm for myself), I couldn't compare the two.

Well, it is not so much about the Russian Revolution (only a small part at the beginning is), but moves on quickly to Stalinism.

Yes, I figured that much out. Napoleon is supposed to represent Stalin, right? Both use propaganda to gain followers.

Exactly. Both work with detailed plans and quotas, both take care to appear as a "comrade", but in fact place themselves above everyone else, both are sly and dishonest. The dogs represent the Red Army, Snowball is Trotsky, the sheep are the gullible masses, and so on. I really find it fascinating how Orwell manages to create the exact same relations in a completely different environment.

You've analyzed this book before. Was anyone aware of who Orwell's characters symbolized when the book was first written?
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:21 pm

Nicholle wrote:
Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
I read Animal Farm earlier this year. I liked it, but considering I know very little of the Russian Revolution (I just read Animal Farm for myself), I couldn't compare the two.

Well, it is not so much about the Russian Revolution (only a small part at the beginning is), but moves on quickly to Stalinism.

Yes, I figured that much out. Napoleon is supposed to represent Stalin, right? Both use propaganda to gain followers.

Exactly. Both work with detailed plans and quotas, both take care to appear as a "comrade", but in fact place themselves above everyone else, both are sly and dishonest. The dogs represent the Red Army, Snowball is Trotsky, the sheep are the gullible masses, and so on. I really find it fascinating how Orwell manages to create the exact same relations in a completely different environment.

You've analyzed this book before. Was anyone aware of who Orwell's characters symbolized when the book was first written?

Actually, I haven't Smile I started reading it on Wednesday, finished yesterday, and did the analysis along the way - one of the benefits that come with being a historian. I hope this does not come across as arrogant - if so, I am very sorry!

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:26 pm

Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
Laura wrote:
Nicholle wrote:
I read Animal Farm earlier this year. I liked it, but considering I know very little of the Russian Revolution (I just read Animal Farm for myself), I couldn't compare the two.

Well, it is not so much about the Russian Revolution (only a small part at the beginning is), but moves on quickly to Stalinism.

Yes, I figured that much out. Napoleon is supposed to represent Stalin, right? Both use propaganda to gain followers.

Exactly. Both work with detailed plans and quotas, both take care to appear as a "comrade", but in fact place themselves above everyone else, both are sly and dishonest. The dogs represent the Red Army, Snowball is Trotsky, the sheep are the gullible masses, and so on. I really find it fascinating how Orwell manages to create the exact same relations in a completely different environment.

You've analyzed this book before. Was anyone aware of who Orwell's characters symbolized when the book was first written?

Actually, I haven't Smile I started reading it on Wednesday, finished yesterday, and did the analysis along the way - one of the benefits that come with being a historian. I hope this does not come across as arrogant - if so, I am very sorry!

Quote :
But "Animal Farm" is one of the books where I love analysing.

I assumed you had. My bad. Still, it would have been interesting if Stalin knew of the comparison.
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:38 pm

Laura wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Allison wrote:
I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That is also lovely... Of all animals, the pigs are depicted as the bastards... Very Happy

It was a shame. I like pigs. I have a whole collection of pig memorabilia on a shelf and everything. Anyway.

I liked the book a lot. It kind of ruined it for me when I had to pick each aspect apart and pair it with an aspect of the Russian Revolution and write a paper on it, but I feel very informed, at least.

Strange - that is part of the fun for me, to pick it apart, analyse every single word to the last bit. It makes me feel that I understand the text more thoroughly. Then again, that may be the linguist in me.

It wasn't the text I had to pick apart. It was the plot and characters themselves. That's what I hated about it, because I had to take chapters from a textbook and pick apart how it matched Animal Farm. It was enough to drive anyone nutty.
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:39 pm

Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Allison wrote:
I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That is also lovely... Of all animals, the pigs are depicted as the bastards... Very Happy

It was a shame. I like pigs. I have a whole collection of pig memorabilia on a shelf and everything. Anyway.

I liked the book a lot. It kind of ruined it for me when I had to pick each aspect apart and pair it with an aspect of the Russian Revolution and write a paper on it, but I feel very informed, at least.

Strange - that is part of the fun for me, to pick it apart, analyse every single word to the last bit. It makes me feel that I understand the text more thoroughly. Then again, that may be the linguist in me.

It wasn't the text I had to pick apart. It was the plot and characters themselves. That's what I hated about it, because I had to take chapters from a textbook and pick apart how it matched Animal Farm. It was enough to drive anyone nutty.

I see, that must be boring. There is too little emotion involved in that, isn't it?

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:42 pm

Laura wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Allison wrote:
I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That is also lovely... Of all animals, the pigs are depicted as the bastards... Very Happy

It was a shame. I like pigs. I have a whole collection of pig memorabilia on a shelf and everything. Anyway.

I liked the book a lot. It kind of ruined it for me when I had to pick each aspect apart and pair it with an aspect of the Russian Revolution and write a paper on it, but I feel very informed, at least.

Strange - that is part of the fun for me, to pick it apart, analyse every single word to the last bit. It makes me feel that I understand the text more thoroughly. Then again, that may be the linguist in me.

It wasn't the text I had to pick apart. It was the plot and characters themselves. That's what I hated about it, because I had to take chapters from a textbook and pick apart how it matched Animal Farm. It was enough to drive anyone nutty.

I see, that must be boring. There is too little emotion involved in that, isn't it?

It just felt kind of pointless. Though I did learn a lot, which I suppose was the point. I think I still have the paper.
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:19 pm

Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Rhea wrote:
Laura wrote:
Allison wrote:
I read Animal Farm a few months ago, and I thought it was very good. Boxer's death had me on the verge of tears. My favorite part of the whole thing was the last sentence. "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

That is also lovely... Of all animals, the pigs are depicted as the bastards... Very Happy

It was a shame. I like pigs. I have a whole collection of pig memorabilia on a shelf and everything. Anyway.

I liked the book a lot. It kind of ruined it for me when I had to pick each aspect apart and pair it with an aspect of the Russian Revolution and write a paper on it, but I feel very informed, at least.

Strange - that is part of the fun for me, to pick it apart, analyse every single word to the last bit. It makes me feel that I understand the text more thoroughly. Then again, that may be the linguist in me.

It wasn't the text I had to pick apart. It was the plot and characters themselves. That's what I hated about it, because I had to take chapters from a textbook and pick apart how it matched Animal Farm. It was enough to drive anyone nutty.

I see, that must be boring. There is too little emotion involved in that, isn't it?

It just felt kind of pointless. Though I did learn a lot, which I suppose was the point. I think I still have the paper.

Animal Farm does sort of simplify the aspects of the Russian Revolution and Stalinism in general, excluding a lot of aspects of the Russian revolution. I like Animal Farm in theory. Does that make sense? It isn't really my type of book, but yes, I liked it - somewhat.
Trying to get every aspect of the book to tie with the Russian Revolution is not only brain-wracking, it's forcing you to make sort-of connections when they don't even exist. How fortunate that the essay fell to your lot instead of mine. Did anyone see the Animal Farm cartoon?
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:31 pm

Luthien wrote:


Animal Farm does sort of simplify the aspects of the Russian Revolution and Stalinism in general, excluding a lot of aspects of the Russian revolution. I like Animal Farm in theory. Does that make sense? It isn't really my type of book, but yes, I liked it - somewhat.
Trying to get every aspect of the book to tie with the Russian Revolution is not only brain-wracking, it's forcing you to make sort-of connections when they don't even exist. How fortunate that the essay fell to your lot instead of mine. Did anyone see the Animal Farm cartoon?

No, but I was thinking about watching the recent version. Is it worth the trouble of locating a copy?

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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:26 pm

Laura wrote:
Luthien wrote:


Animal Farm does sort of simplify the aspects of the Russian Revolution and Stalinism in general, excluding a lot of aspects of the Russian revolution. I like Animal Farm in theory. Does that make sense? It isn't really my type of book, but yes, I liked it - somewhat.
Trying to get every aspect of the book to tie with the Russian Revolution is not only brain-wracking, it's forcing you to make sort-of connections when they don't even exist. How fortunate that the essay fell to your lot instead of mine. Did anyone see the Animal Farm cartoon?

No, but I was thinking about watching the recent version. Is it worth the trouble of locating a copy?

The cartoon is a terrible movie. It was put out by the US government as an attempt to turn as many Americans against socialism as possible, at the cost of ignoring certain things in the book.
The live-action is terribly cheesy, but isn't a political cartoon, at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Animal Farm   Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:09 am

The cartoon IS terrible, actually. But I've never seen the live action version.
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